337 lines?
In article <48d30b44$0$89877$815e3792@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
Ed Huesers <ed@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>Hope this is the one....
Likely.
>Chris Townsend wrote:
>>>> There are European brown bears in places too. Not many though.
>>> I'm not certain of the extent of brown bears in Europe other than as
far
>>> North in Norway and Russia, French Alps (possibly the Pyrenees), etc.
>>
>> They venture into Sweden and Finland too and I think they are found in
>> Eastern Europe in countries like Poland.
Well I know they are in Sweden, Finland, and Russia.
>>>> I've seen a wolverine in Norway - and tracks a few times.
>> I've never seen one in a zoo!
One sits captive in Anchorage's zoo.
>>>> Plus moose (called elg in Norway).
>>> Big deal in the US. VP candidate shoots them. Dresses them, eats
them.
>>> Slurp.
>> So we hear. Our politicians are very urban.
Fox hunting, House of Lords and all that. hip hip
>>>> The Sami have been there thousands of years. They probably had a
similar
>>>> effect to Native Americans on Canada and Alaska.
>>> I have a Swedish friend, and we were going over Scandinavian history
>>> "So why did your people repress the Norwegians? ..."
>>
>> They both repressed the Sami, who were a nomadic people with no concept
>> of land owner****p.
Communists!
>>>> I led a ski tour on Spitsbergen, the main island of Svalbard, many
years
>>>> ago. We carried a rifle. No polar bears - it was an inland trip, not
>>> Was the rifle your responsibility or did you have a licensed guide
>>> with it?
>>
>> It was my responsibility. However one of the group was experienced with
>> firearms and a gun club member so he took charge of it. He had been on
>> previous trips with me so I knew him pretty well.
He tested/sampled the ammo?
>>>>> Oh yes, and according to Wikipedia, Norway asserts Antarctic claims
and
>>>>> Queen Maudland is consider Norwegian territory. It's B-c.
>>>> That's interesting.
>>> The United States choses not to recognize the claims of other
countries
>>> and choses not to assert its own claims for international reasons.
>> Which are?
We got there first in the person of 24th year old Lt. Nathaniel Palmer.
But we won't assert that at this time. Sort of like the UK asserting that
South Georgia Island is British territory.
>> Svalbard was a key place during the Cold War of course. The Soviets
>> maintained a coal mine on Spitsbergen so they could have a presence
there.
Yes, they found a mistaken US satellite which just chanced to drop into
their midst. That because the real basis of Alister MacLean's Ice Station
Zebra, except real. And no two superpowers carefully backing away at
the end in the name of "Peaceful co-existence."
>>>>> The problem now is changing fire prevention issues.
>>>>> more rural (a precursor to cultivation like drainage).
>>>> Here 4WD tracks are built by private estates for stalking (deer
>>>> hunting). They have no official standing. There's rarely any fire
>>>> prevention problems. It's too wet.
>>> No burning peat bogs?
>>
>> It would take a very long drought! Peat is cut for burning in homes. It
>> has to be stacked and dried for many weeks. I like the smell of burning
>> peat.
Hey tundra burns.
The question is if rain is dimini****ng.
>>>>>> The Flow
>>>>>> Country of Caithness and Sutherland in Northern Scotland
>> I think it's been called the Flow Country for a long time.
Really?
>>>>> extraction industries
>>>> Private deer stalking estates are traditional opposition here. They
>>>> don't want regenerating forests or predators. Traditional extraction
....
>> The deer have nothing to hide behind here. Scottish red deer are
smaller
>> than European ones because they live on open hillsides while the latter
>> live in forests. Better and more food in the trees.
Sound like Florida reindeer.
>>>>>> much since the Middle Ages. The last major change seems to have
>>>>>> been in Roman times.
>>>>> Set by roads?
>>>> In part. To march armies around and crush the Celts. Also the spread
of
>>>> agriculture, especially in southern England.
>>> Oh those Romans.
>>
>> What did they do for us?
Slaughtered and enslaved the Greeks. The Gauls.
>> Not as much as people think, according to Terry Jones' The Barbarians.
>>>>>>> Parks are more spectacle. They have greater entertainment value.
>>>>> Economics. So Preservation might be doomed.
>>>> Something always survives. So far. The northern Europe areas we are
>>>> trying to conserve are all less than 11,000 years old - post the last
>>>> Ice Age. Geologically they barely exist.
>>> So far. Ice sheets are mostly gone.
>>
>> You'll see ice caps in Norway. Hardangerjokulen. Jostedalsbreen.
I am aware, but I am not able to have time to get really close to them.
I am aware of the tunnels bore into them for research.
>>>>>> Hunting is very different in much of Europe to the USA and Canada.
>>>>> Are we going to have to enumerate the various forms of regulation
>>>> It's not regulation that makes hunting elitist, it's private land
>>>> owner****p. No hunting without permission. No permission without a
large
>>>> fee, booked dates and hunting guides.
>>> I think you have different opinions.
>>
>> Just opinions?
Yeah. Values. It's how your interact with private lands.
>>>>>>>>> try to claim you have wild lands and not merely unused rural
pasture
>>>>>>>> When does unused rural pasture become wild again?
>>>>>> Almost immediately I would say.
>>>>> I'm trying to think if I could agree with that.
>>>>> If it was originally your bog, and you drained it to get pasture,
>>>>> did you reflood it? You might get birds back. Older large aniamls,
>>>>> likely not.
>>>> Some bogs were drained for pasture, though few in the Highlands. When
>>>> trees were cut down the land was either just left or replanted with
>>>> non-native species that were felled in turn after 30-40 years.
Smaller
>>>> mammals are returning with the natural forest - pine martin, red
>>>> squirrel, roe deer.
>>>
>>> I would argue that since drainage, the bog started to get civil.
>>> Wildness was reduced.
>>
>> I agree. In places - mostly down south in the lowlands - bogs are being
>> flooded again to try and restore the wildness.
Well not only that, you are talking a non-native tree species. So
wildness is again further reduced.
>>>> I think when an area is "rewilded" to use the current in word it
becomes
>>>> a new type of wild area. The past cannot be recreated. In Britain
large
>>>> mammals arrived when the land was connected to mainland Europe.
There's
>>>> no way for them to get here now.
>>> I have to think about rewild.
>>
>> An interesting word. I have doubts about it.
"Come to the Dark side, Luke..."
>>>>> The Right argues that more of it should go into private hands.
>>>>> Tompkins is doing that in Chile, South America.
>>>> As are the National Trusts, John Muir Trusts, Royal Society for the
>>>> Protection of Birds and other bodies - all private.
>>> Can be nationalized?
>>
>> Very unlikely. The Trusts have a great advantage in being independent
of
>> government. The trust deeds usually mean that properties can't be sold
>> or exploited - they are to be conserved "in perpetuity".
As long as the current govt. survives.
>>>>>>> So wild here mostly means roadless.
>>>>>> I think wild here often means roadless too, but the roadless area
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>> quite small. Roads may be visible and a place still called wild.
>>>>> I think here, we've decided to do minimum sizes for wilderness
areas. A
>>>>> 5x4 mile wilderness area might be the minimum for a wilderness.
>>>> We have a few areas that would fit into that.
>>> Ye, but they also sit in the middle of road lacking forest area. 5x4
>>> surrounded by roads is another. A lot of road kill..
>>
>> A lot of road kill indeed. Mainly rabbits and pheasants here with a few
>> squirrels. Collisions with deer are common.
10,000s here. Lots.
>>>>>> By Land Trust do you mean the National Trust? There are two - one
for
>>>>>> England and Wales and one for Scotland. The National Trust for
>>>>>> Scotland
>>>>>> does own much wild land - as well as castles, gardens and stately
>>>>>> homes.
>>>>> You have Trusts. We have Departments and Services.
>>>> But the Trusts are private.
>>> Advantages and disadvantages.
>>
>> Mainly the former.
You and I might agree, but some American conservatives might not.
>>>>> "Wait'll you see the new clipboards..." 322 lines. Edit Chris.
>>> 365 lines. Cut Chris, cut.
223 lines.
--
|
