Glaciation: was list (CSAA) of must see animals.

Eugene Miya wrote:
> Ed Huesers wrote:
>>>>> Spring is not a great time of year to study mass balance.
>>>>   Well, then it probably isn't a moat because it's the top layer of 
>>>> snow that melts because it is on the warm ground and rock at the top.

>>>> What I thought was a moat melts down to where it is nearly flat
stepping 
>>>> on the glacier from above.
>>> Snow != ice.
>>    See, that's what I need the book for. The fresh layer of ice that 
>> most call snow melts fast from the radiant heat of the earth/rock at
the 
>> top of the glacier. The underlying ice that a lot of people would call 
>> snow but I call it ice. It's older, from year or years before. It's
much 
>> denser and melts much slower. The top fresh layer first melts away from

>> ground and then down from the top so the fresh layer is only foot or so

>> thick. Kinda leaves a moat looking thing but I don't think that's what 
>> you would call a moat.
> 
> Bedrock has temperature.  Glacier theory has the base at 0C. That's a
> good assumption for temperate glaciers.  If you are melting to the
> ground, you aren't on a glacier.  You can have debris fall on to one,
> get covered with snow and form a moat (melt), but you still have to have
> ice underneath.  You can have lateral and medial moraines.

    Did some reading on the web and most glaciers here are not moving. 
Not quite thick enough. Don't have many medial moraines either. Have 
been studying the terrain with a bit more understanding of the medial 
moraines though and the recessional moraines. Things make more sense 
now. Makes traveling easier too.

>>>>> Movement is also sometime complicated.
>>>> Yeah, It's not like I'm going to sit there and watch it move. I 
>>>> doubt they would like me sticking a marker in.
>>> Well as a matter of fact, you could.
>>> watch that the poles we placed moved 200 mm (20 cm or 8 inch) over a 3
>>> day period.
>>    Sounds like more work than I'm ready for, rounding up all that gear 
>> and then climbing the same glacier several times.
>>    But for some reason I don't think this glacier moves near as much as

>> the one you measured. It's not very steep, only need an ice axe when 
>> it's hard.
> 
> Well the Shoestring was likely the most unusual lower 48 glacier before
> St. Helens blew.  My friend talked to both Austin Post and Fred Beckey
> about it before selecting it.  She got some of Austin's aerial photos.
> 
> Smaller glaciers work on the same principals, just smaller.

    I was on continental glacier in WY many years ago. G.E. photographs 
show it much smaller now.

>>> That's just linear.  We had to also deal with wave height.
>>    Wave height? You mean the bedrock underneath having a hump. Making 
>> crev***** and ice falls?
> 
> There were ice falls and crev*****.  The Shoestring had an estimated 6
> kinematic waves.  We did survey work below one of the ice falls.

    I don't know of any ice falls here.

> All gone now, basically.

    Must have been on Helen's...

>>>> soft was deep enough to give a mostly flat step when stomped hard on 
>>>> those few hazardous steps.
>>> Oh, hard to side step.
>>    Must be done correctly or it would slide, but there was just enough 
>> fresh to give a comfortable step.
> 
> Crampons.

    Might have worked. The fresh snow was probably just deep enough to 
stop the crampons from digging into the hard base. A fella I've told you 
about before died on Long's north face on descent with fresh on wind pack.

>>>>> You must have spacing between the boulders.
>>>> Stay in the center of the snowfields, exit carefully.
>>> Only as a generalization.
>>    Yes, some snowfields have humps of boulders in them where the 
>> boulders are under the snow. Experience seems to help. I think I've 
>> found a couple holes it the last decade. I don't travel fast in 
>> questionable areas on the way down, that forward momentum is the leg 
>> breaker.
> 
> Yeah like moraines.  I can image pingos might be a problem.  All kinds
> of ice related morphology.

    Pingos?

>>>> Stay on bare rock/tundra mix when not sure of the snowfield.
>>> Sometimes a safer bet.
>>    It feels good to mix it up in a climb anyway. Work different
muscles.
> 
> Well choice can be good.
> More than muscles.

    Muscles are just one benefit of mixing up climbing techniques during 
a climb. Take the easy route but always consider the hazards.

> We were watching a plane video.  And there were flight issues landing on
> frozen lakes on skis vs. wheels.

    Hook an edge in cross winds with the skis?

>>>>   I'd like to travel to someplace where the freshly polished rock is 
>>>> showing. Eradics would be pretty unstable.
>>> Erratics.  They can be stable.  How fresh?
>>    I've seen some small ones in one canyon where the permanent 
>> snowfield has receded a long ways. They were that years deposit and
very 
>> fresh with sand still on them.
>>    I'd like to see big ones sat down by the actual glacier itself. 
>> Perhaps the Mudlow.
> 
> The Muldrow is likely good.  Murray was on the Muldrow a few decades
back.
> 
>>> RMNP should have some.
>>    I've seen polished rock where the ground got washed away off the 
>> bedrock. The ground apparently protected the rock from the freeze thaw 
>> cycle and it looks pretty freshly polished. Don't see that much though.
> 
> What about the bases of Longs and Hallet?

    From what I've seen, most exposed rock has been weathered. Spotted a 
small piece of rock that had a high sheen on it though. Probably 
recently quarried off and ended up where I saw it.

>>> Depends on the bed rock.  Yosemite has a fair amount.  The Alps and a
>>> lot of other places have G polish.
>>    Seems to be to much talus on the edges to show the bedrock here. 
>> Farther away from the glaciers it has seen the freeze thaw for to long.
>>    Sometimes there's quartz that is still polished but not often.
> 
> You just have to find the right place.  You should be able to find some
> in just Boulder Canyon.  And that Canyon above your house which I drove
> down.  Look around.

    Yes, yes. Glacially shaped but not freshly polished.

>>> I gave Murray 2 of my geo books.  What does he do?  Spend more time
with
>>> botanists.
>>    They smell nice. Give me the smell of fresh broken rock though.
> 
> Hope for you.  Go for your rock.

    I remember the smell when playing with flint as a kid.

> Don't dream it, be it.

    It's not training but a way of life.

    Ed Huesers
    http://www.grandshelters.com